Drummer’s Review
Mark Guiliana is a musician with a wide range of skills. Composer, educator, producer, and of course drummer, lending his skills to artists as diverse as Avishai Cohen, Lionel Loueke, St. Vincent, and David Bowie.
After an intimate performance at this year’s Montreal Jazz Festival, Drummers Review’s Andy Hughes sat down with Mark for a chat about improvising advice, hire kits, and future projects.
A fascinating set Mark, are you going to have a chance to explore any of the amazing array of musicians at this year’s Festival?
Thankyou, and sadly, no, I am just in and out of the Festival this year, hopefully if I come back I can schedule some more time to check out the amazing line-ups they get here in Montreal.
What was your first drum kit?
It was an old Slingerland kit, just a bass drum, a rack tom and a snare, no cymbals, so I cut out some cardboard circles to have something to play with. The kit belonged to my cousin who was no longer using it, so she passed it on to me. I was not especially interested in playing drums then, but my parents always wanted me to be busy. I played a lot of sports, and playing drums was really something else to do, rather than something I actively wanted to pursue for myself.
You had some lessons, do you think lessons are important as a grounding for young drummers starting out?
Well for me personally, it was essential because, as I said, I had no actual interest in playing the drums, so without formal lessons, I would never have discovered playing or if I was actually suited to it or not.
Given the level that you have reached as a drummer, it’s amazing to think that you didn’t actually start from a desire to play.
I think it is. I started to learn, and I quickly found that I did have an aptitude for playing the drums, and I do credit my teachers for that. I found that my progress was quite rapid and no matter how mundane the exercises were, I found I wanted to do them, and progress with the drums.
What music were you listening to growing up?
Well, I started playing drums in 1995, and that was the height of the ‘grunge’ era, bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden were all on the radio when I was listening. I was drawn to that style, but thanks to my teachers, I was introduced to jazz, and found an interest in that style.
What kit were you playing tonight?
Well, when I tour with my own band, I almost never get to play with my own kit. I always ask for the same things, but I never know what I’m going to actually get until I turn up for soundcheck. When I’m able, for my own band shows, I like to use my Gretsch Broadkaster kit, with be-bop sizes, eighteen-inch kick drum, and twelve and fourteen inch toms. For electronic shows, I use bigger sizes. For the last two years, I’ve been touring with St. Vincent, and I need bigger and lower tones there, so I have my Gretsch Brooklyn set, with a twenty-inch kick, and sixteen and twelve inch toms.
You played drums on David Bowie’s Blackstar album, why did he select you?
Bowie heard us play as a band, myself, Donny McCaslin, Jason Lindner, and Tim Lefebre, and he hired us all together, as a band. We’d been playing shows in the New York underground scene, and Bowie decided he wanted our sound for his album. He asked us just to play how we play, which was a massive compliment, and he used our sound as the template for the album.
Do you feel that working for such an iconic artist acts as a sort of ‘business card’ for you?
Well, not in the sense of me telling people that I played on Bowie’s album, I wouldn’t do that out of respect for him. But a lot of great relationships in music that I have enjoyed, I can trace back to my working on that album. If people hear about it, that’s great, but I don’t tell people about it.
What’s it been like working as touring drummer with St Vincent?
My approach to working with St Vincent is the same as my approach to working with any artist, I look for the best musical choices to show her music in the best possible light, and then I work towards realising those choices and making them happen. All the music we play on the tour was already recorded, so for me it was a matter of learning the parts, and then finding some new arrangements and putting my own personal stamp on them, and finding the energy that the music needs.
Is it a big change to be playing that style of music?
It’s actually like a return to my roots. I grew up listening to more rock music than jazz, and I have always been involved with it, but more in smaller bands with friends around New York. It’s an important piece of the puzzle for me, so I am really enjoying it.
A lot of acoustic kit players hold a nameless mistrust of electronic kits, as though the notion of an electronic set takes away their personality. What do you say to players who maybe have that suspicion?
It’s interesting, because my love of electronic music has led more to me trying to emulate electronic sounds, but using my acoustic kit. When I play with Beat Music, which is my electronic band project, I play an acoustic kit. I may have a sampler alongside the kit with some ambient sounds and textures programmed in, but I don’t use prerecorded tracks, or triggers for sounds when we play live. I must confess a little personal element of mistrust in electronic kits. I know what my snare is going to do far more than I can know what an electronic trigger is going to do, I like that sense of control that my acoustic drums give me. So, I think in a live settings, a little healthy scepticism is not a bad thing. But that said, in terms of creativity, I am open for anything and everything that will enhance my abilities to compose and play. Take what you want, what works for you as an individual and always be curious.
Do you practice a lot?
I’ve never been very big on practising to be honest, mainly because of time. I play a lot with different configurations of musicians, and when I am home, I tend to gravitate more towards the piano, because I use that for composition, and with two working bands, I am always looking for ways to expand our repertoires. By the time I have some time to myself, to sit with my drums, I usually play along with an Art Blakey record, but that is for the release, for the pleasure of playing. I don’t make the mistake of thinking that playing along with a record is always practising.
Do you think that you have all the necessary technical skills you need as a drummer, are you looking for anything else?
I wouldn’t say I am looking, but I am always open, which is slightly different. I heard Jack DeJohnette who is one of my heroes, talking about technique, and he said, you only need enough technique to play your ideas. And that is absolutely right. It’s the ideas that matter, you must keep those as your North Star. Then when you have an idea, if you don’t have the technique to realise it, that’s the incentive to practice and hone the technique until you have it. The idea is the goal, and the technique is what I need to realise it.
Improvisation is always a fascinating concept – do you ever get lost in an improvisation and lose your way, in terms of following the main melody?
It’s actually the other way around in my experience – if you are playing a tightly regimented piece where everything is the same every time you play it, that’s when you are prone to lose concentration and maybe get lost in things. Improvisation is about seeing how far you can zoom out. That can be a phrase, an entire piece, or even an entire set. In a studio setting, everyone is really concentrating on their own part, on getting it absolutely perfect every time. You can say to a producer, oh I missed a hi-hat note here, or I dropped a beat there. And a great producer will say, it’s fine, we got the take with the energy and feel we wanted and that’s what is important. Everyone will feel and enjoy your playing, almost no-one will notice the odd mistake here or there.
Is there a way to practice improvising?
I get asked that question a lot. You can use tools to help you improvise, but either you are improvising, or you’re not, so you can’t actually rehearse how to do it. You have to just do it, and don’t worry too much about how it sounds. We are all improvising in our daily lives. You and I are doing it now, in this conversation, we are listening, editing, filtering, thinking what’s next, it is about instinct. The trick is, do it, and let it be bad for a while, because it’s only be doing it that you will learn how to do it better.
You mentioned the tools for improvising, what are they?
Well, the most common tool is ‘theme and variation’ – try out a theme, and see how many variations you can construct around it. Without wishing to offer a shameless plug, I have attempted to answer that question in my book Exploring Your Creativity On The Drumset. Things like dynamics, sub-division, orchestration, those big-picture ideas that you can start to understand, so you can manipulate your ideas in different ways.
Do you have a favourite song from the live set you are playing now
I do like A Path To Bliss, which is the first tune in the set. I don’t actually play for the first half if it, and I enjoy hearing the different ways the band approach it each time we play it.
Do you have a favourite track from Black Star?
I remember Girl Loves Me was a fun beat to try and work out, and I do like how it turned out. Bowie’s demo had two computer rhythms, one on top of the other, and obviously I couldn’t replicate that, but like everything else, he just wanted to hear what I did with it, and play what I thought would fit.
Who are your heroes in drumming?
All my early heroes like Chad Smtih are still in place, heroes don’t get replaced, they just get added to, and it’s always good to hear new material from someone you admire. Just before meeting up with you, I was listening to a newly released John Coltrane recording, which has the brilliant Elvin Jones on it, and he is top of my list. It’s not ‘new, it was recorded sixty years ago, but it’s new to his audience, and its new to me. I am listening to a lot of Cuban and Afrobeat music at the moment.
They have a wide range of Cuban and Afrobeat music here at the Jazz Festival, will you be checking any of that out?
Sadly not, I am literally in and out of the city for this show, we are travelling on tomorrow. Hopefully I can come back another year, I can stay longer and sample some of the Festival, it has such a wonderful diverse lineup of musicians every year.
Are you a kit collector?
I have actually just bought a new kit a couple of days ago, a Gretsch Round Badge set with a twenty-two-inch bass drum, and sixteen and thirteen inch toms, in a blue satin flame finish, it looks really sharp. I am looking forward to getting home and trying it out.
Is it difficult working with hire kits as much as you do?
I actually enjoy it. When I was growing up and playing in clubs, I never got to play my own kit. So when I work with my band, or other projects, it’s usually a hire kit. I do like the challenge of sitting down behind a kit that is new to me, and working out how I am going to get my own personal sound out of it. I’m a different person on a different stage every night, and that’s really good fun. The big difference is touring with St Vincent, because that is a full production show, and I can have my own kit transported for me, which I enjoy.
How far advanced is your next project?
Well, my next project is probably going to be completely solo album. I have touring commitments with my band until the end of this year, so it won’t be worked on until early next year. In terms of advancement, it hasn’t actually left my head yet! Once the compositional structures are in place, it doesn’t actually take long to get the recording done. I’m looking forward to it.
ANDY HUGHES.
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